23. people-pleasing with Sara Bybee-Fisk

Thu, 2/17 1:41AM • 38:07

SPEAKERS

Vanessa, Sara

Vanessa  00:00

Welcome to coaching for Latina leaders, the only podcast dedicated to the advancement of Latinas at every level of life with your host, Dr. Vanessa Calderon a Latina with over 20 years of leadership experience, Harvard grad physician  and mother of two. Hello, my amazing Latina leaders welcome back. So I have a very special guest for all of you today. So I am bringing on a dear friend of mine, Sarah Bybee Fisk, who happens to be an expert on stopping people pleasing. So you know, most of us come to our work because we needed the support ourselves. And we got, you know, really great at it. We're like, Man that changed my life. How can I help others? And Sara and I met most recently at a 200k mastermind, but I have been sort of following her around, which is my Business Mastermind, our Business Mastermind, but I've installed the following you around, sir. I don't know if you know this, because I've seen you coach. And I think it's really powerful, the work that you do. And I wanted to bring her on because of her expertise. And because of her just knowledge and history. And Sara also happens to be a Latina herself. So let me bring on the amazing Sara, do you mind sharing a little bit about yourself? Sarah,

Sara  01:20

I would love to thank you, Vanessa. My I am biracial. My mother's Mexicana and my my dad is is white. And I grew up in central California. And what's interesting, I think about growing up in central California is that there's a lot of Hispanic people there. There's I grew up in a very small farming town called Selma in this in the Central Valley. And growing up, can we give a shout out to all the Central Valley folks. I'm from Visalia, that's got down for two seconds. Oh my goodness, yes. 99. driving away. There we go. There we go. Where I grew up, I I came from a very religious family, I grew up Mormon. And in my little tiny town, there were not a lot of Mormon families. We had a big family. So in some ways, we were on the outside, like Latino looking family, lots of kids, Latino family, but in other ways we weren't we, you know, attended this church that not a lot of kids or people that I knew attended. My dad was a classical music, performance major. And so all of us played the piano classically trained pianist, and, and so growing up, I didn't feel Latina. I didn't feel one or the other. Because in Selma, your options for being Mexican were undocumented workers. And there were plenty of those. They went to my church, they were in my my mom was an ESL teacher at the high school. And so there were a lot of them, and I knew them, but I didn't speak Spanish. And so we didn't associate a lot. And then there were like, the old Mexicano families that Cholos and the Cholas and the and the the writers in the Keen senioras and we didn't do that either. And so I really struggled to find a Mexican identity until really college, because I went to a predominantly white college. And after coming from a predominantly Mexican High School in

23.-people-pleasing-w-Sara-Bybee-Fisk

Thu, 2/17 1:41AM • 38:07

SPEAKERS

Vanessa, Sara

Vanessa  00:00

Welcome to coaching for Latina leaders, the only podcast dedicated to the advancement of Latinas at every level of life with your host, Dr. Vanessa Calderon a Latina with over 20 years of leadership experience, Harvard grad physician  and mother of two. Hello, my amazing Latina leaders welcome back. So I have a very special guest for all of you today. So I am bringing on a dear friend of mine, Sarah Bybee Fisk, who happens to be an expert on stopping people pleasing. So you know, most of us come to our work because we needed the support ourselves. And we got, you know, really great at it. We're like, Man that changed my life. How can I help others? And Sara and I met most recently at a 200k mastermind, but I have been sort of following her around, which is my Business Mastermind, our Business Mastermind, but I've installed the following you around, sir. I don't know if you know this, because I've seen you coach. And I think it's really powerful, the work that you do. And I wanted to bring her on because of her expertise. And because of her just knowledge and history. And Sara also happens to be a Latina herself. So let me bring on the amazing Sara, do you mind sharing a little bit about yourself? Sarah,

Sara  01:20

I would love to thank you, Vanessa. My I am biracial. My mother's Mexicana and my my dad is is white. And I grew up in central California. And what's interesting, I think about growing up in central California is that there's a lot of Hispanic people there. There's I grew up in a very small farming town called Selma in this in the Central Valley. And growing up, can we give a shout out to all the Central Valley folks. I'm from Visalia, that's got down for two seconds. Oh my goodness, yes. 99. driving away. There we go. There we go. Where I grew up, I I came from a very religious family, I grew up Mormon. And in my little tiny town, there were not a lot of Mormon families. We had a big family. So in some ways, we were on the outside, like Latino looking family, lots of kids, Latino family, but in other ways we weren't we, you know, attended this church that not a lot of kids or people that I knew attended. My dad was a classical music, performance major. And so all of us played the piano classically trained pianist, and, and so growing up, I didn't feel Latina. I didn't feel one or the other. Because in Selma, your options for being Mexican were undocumented workers. And there were plenty of those. They went to my church, they were in my my mom was an ESL teacher at the high school. And so there were a lot of them, and I knew them, but I didn't speak Spanish. And so we didn't associate a lot. And then there were like, the old Mexicano families that Cholos and the Cholas and the and the the writers in the Keen senioras and we didn't do that either. And so I really struggled to find a Mexican identity until really college, because I went to a predominantly white college. And after coming from a predominantly Mexican High School in 

the Central Valley to this predominately white college, I was like, Whoa, everybody here is so white. And that's when I really came into I think, my own as a Latina. And I was like, I, I am Mexican. I started learning Spanish, I started really trying to understand my heritage and my history and my culture. And so from then on, I've always identified as as Mexican.

Vanessa  04:01

I find it so fascinating how it takes, you know, us moving so far away and feeling along to want to re identify with, you know, our roots and who we are.

Sara  04:11

Absolutely, yeah, that's exactly that's exactly what it was. 

Vanessa  04:14

So you are an incredible coach and get a lot of people results around people pleasing, which is kind of interesting, because a lot of women have it, we're socialized to have it so curious how you got into the work

Sara  04:28

because I am a people pleaser. And because for so long, it was just this obstacle in my way and I spent so much time even as a coach trying to make other people think I'm a good coach, what can I say? What can I do? What kind of project I've been in a couple of different coaching programs where you have to submit a project then I just in this last year, was part of a master coach training project and or program and we had to submit a project and I was just stumped by, what can I do to make them the think that I'm a master coach. And as long as my focus was on trying to control what other people thought of me, oh my gosh, it was just failure after failure, I just could not make any progress. And so when it became clear to me like, I really didn't think that I was that much of a people pleaser, I could say no to things I didn't want to do. I could, you know, I didn't find myself in some of what I think are some of the more typical people pleasers situations where I'm like working on the PTA and delivering, you know, cookies to everybody and like doing a lot of things for other people. But where my people pleasing showed up, was in trying to control other people's thinking about me, feeling like that was the most important thing, like I didn't have any inner authority, any inner trust of myself. And so once that became clear, I have made it a study of the last 18 months to just really dig into why people pleasing happens, and how to really resolve it in a way that develops all of the other virtues that we want to have. Because many women, when they think about not people pleasing anymore, they get a little sad, like, does that mean I'm not going to do anything for anybody anymore? Does that mean I'm not going to be nice and kind. And so there's a little bit of resistance to that. And no, it doesn't mean you become you know, that jingo now that everybody's afraid of unless you want to be. But what it means is that you develop an inner authority and an inner trust and an inner knowing that is your guide, rather than the voices of everybody outside of you.

Vanessa  06:58

That's so wise, that is just really beautiful. Because I feel like that's everyone's journey is getting to this journey, where you trust yourself enough to know that what you're saying and who you're saying is 

okay, and it's enough. And if people are going to get upset either way, you might as well just live with integrity. So can you share a little bit as to where people pleasing come from?

Sara  07:21

Yes. People pleasing is something we are all taught, it doesn't matter, male female, females get an extra dose as they grow up. Because we all everyone who has has grown up in a patriarchal society gets an extra dose. But in the beginning, if you think about how human needs are met, you're a baby you cry, somebody picks you up, changes your diaper gives you some food, and you learn how to get your needs met. And then the big people in your life start showing you like, Hey, if you do this for me, I will do this for you. And in the beginning, it's an exchange chain that gets our needs met. So every family, every cultural group, all the groups we belong to, they have rules. That's how we know like, who's in the group, and who's out of the group. So as you're growing up in your family, for example, in my family, one of the rules was, you had to practice the piano, right? That was just it. And before you did anything, so I learned, if I do what my parents say, then I get this thing that I can go to my friend's house, I can spend my time the way I want, I can do what I want. And so I learned this exchange of like, I do this for you. And then I get this need met, whether it's safety, or security, or maybe I get food, maybe I get rewarded with food or time from a parent or time to do my own thing. And all of that makes a lot of sense. When we don't have a very well developed sense of ourselves as a separate person. And somewhere along the way, we develop a sense of ourselves as like, I'm my own person, maybe I don't want to practice the piano. Maybe Maybe this was your dream for me. But I don't like practicing the piano for 45 minutes every day. That's not. And so that's when we start to butt up against the rules. Sometimes roles like we are assigned roles in our family. So people pleasing is how we get our needs met in the beginning. But then as we grow and develop our own sense of self, our own likes and dislikes, how we want to live and be and do in the world. Oftentimes that is where the conflict begins.

Vanessa  09:55

How interesting. So let's say you have a normal adaptive not maladaptive human that's growing up at about what age does that start to happen?

Sara  10:06

Well, if you know, a two year old, there, I think are some of our most wise and powerful teachers, because you get some toddlers who are like, No, I am not doing that, I do not want to do that. And they, they're growing into their sense of like, No, this is me, my body myself. And it starts I mean, I don't know, the Age range developmentally, my guess is between about, you know, two and five that really comes on strong as a sense of self. But then sometimes parents double down, like, No, you will do what I tell you to do, you will and parents start to up the ante in terms of rewards, like, if you do this, then you'll get a sucker, you get something that you know, or you'll get some kind of other reward. And so, at different points in development, there's, there's like a surge of self. And parents either honor that. And they know like, Okay, I'm raising this human, who is a separate person with her own wants, needs desires, or they don't, and they're like, no me fat, you are going to do what I tell you to do. Because I know better, I'm the boss. And if you're a girl, it's even worse, because then we start getting taught the rules of what it is to be a good girl, a good daughter, a good Latina, a good student, a good. And so we're always managing these, like surges of self with the roles and the rules and the rewards that are 

constantly being offered to us, if we will abandon that sense of self. And instead do what the big people in our life want us to do.

Vanessa  11:51

That is so interesting, because, you know, you think of your time and adolescence as that's the time when you're supposed to be developing your sense of self and who you are. And there's a natural sort of push back with your the adult figures in your life, if your parents, grandparents, whoever that is. And it's like what you mentioned, right, they might push back on you and be more restrictive. Or they might honor that. And it I think it depends entirely on your culture. And I know in Catholic households, you know, I grew up in a very Latin household. In my household, there was a big push back and letting us be our own person, right. It's like my parents knew best. And I'm sure you had a very similar experience. But I find that interesting, because I'm raising kids. Now I have a four and a seven year old. And my four year old, I want to love him, I love him. And sometimes he really strongly wants his own to his own thing. And obviously, when your kids are that young, your parents, I mean, you know, for me, for example, I don't allow him to, quote unquote, be his own person, because that means he won't eat a healthy dinner, he won't go to bed on time. But my daughter, who's seven, who is very precocious, and incredibly brilliant and so curious, and has some great questions. It's this really beautiful for me, like balance between letting her be her own person. And me like checking myself when I'm showing up trying to be controlling like, like, Does this really serve her? Or am I doing this? Because it serves me or did I? Is this something I picked up from my mom? Is that why I'm doing or saying or whatever being authoritative in this case? But um, it's a really fine balance. And it's not easy. What do you recommend, I guess, for parents that are raising kids to support them to be their own person?

Sara  13:39

That's such a beautiful question. First of all, one of my favorite books, we're going to have to look it up and put it in the show notes. Her name is Dr. Shefali.

Vanessa  13:52

I know who you're talking about. Oh, yeah, yeah,

Sara  13:55

that that book like blew my mind because the thought that I could honor each of my children as their own person. At the same time, while I show up as a parent, and I keep them safe, I provide for their needs. I do the things that an adult that I want to do as an adult was really amazing for me. I think what it looks like to me now is understanding that I've been down the road like you said, Kids need to go to bed so they have enough rest so that tomorrow, they're able to handle the challenges and the demands of the day. So yes, it is time to go to bed and I am going to enforce a bedtime with so much love. And I am going to help you in these other ways where I honor your you know that you are your own person. I think it says balance and as a parent, I mean, I have five children. My oldest is a girl who's now 20 And what I have seen is that I have been able to trust and honor that She is a person alongside the rules of, if I give you a car, it means that you drive the speed limit, it means that this and I'm totally fine taking that away. And it has nothing to do with how much I love you and honor you as a person. But there are 

rules and laws. And these are the ones that I want to focus on and that they should be kept, like I, I see now that loving and honoring them does not mean being permissive, and just letting anything go.

Vanessa  15:30

I love that that's like my favorite thing that I like to use my clients, which is what is the middle way because our brains are so you know, our brains want to go to black and white, because it's the most efficient way of thinking, as opposed to all the gray in the middle. So I love that. Okay, so let's come back to adults now. So let's say you're Latina leader, and you are working in an environment where you're getting asked to do a lot of things, and you've been enculturated to believe that you should be a team player. And you should say yes, and you want to be helpful. So what kind of things does that ultimately lead to tell me?

Sara  16:06

Well, it's going to ultimately lead? Well, I guess, the first question I would ask is, What is your definition of a team player? Right? Like, let's, let's get really clear on the definition that is kind of running the show, in your mind. Do you like that definition? What does that definition produce? Who is it serving? Because I think ultimately, we end up doing a lot of things as women that don't serve us that serve the collective or the team or the men, because we're taught that that's what we are supposed to do. And that's not necessarily serving us in the way that we need to be served.

Vanessa  16:47

Preach it, sister. So true, right? And then we keep getting rewarded for saying yes, or for quote, unquote, being this definition, external definition of a team player that we didn't I, you know, we we may or may not align with that, but we definitely didn't come up with that own definition. It was sort of given to us.

Sara  17:05

Yeah, but think about what the reward is. Reward is a bunch of people outside of you saying, Good job, good job, you did this, you're a team player. But how are we feeling inside? What is what is our inside saying about that?

Vanessa  17:19

I think there's two, it's a little it's a it can be so for those listening, it can, it's gonna, you might feel like a little discombobulated, because there's going to feel like a cognitive dissonance right now. Because you're going to get this external validation, you're going to get promoted, you might make more money, you're going to end. And if you're continuing to get rewarded, that way, you might start thinking that's the only way to get rewarded. But then when you check yourself, and you're like, oh my gosh, I just missed my kid's birthday, because I was at a work meeting, or now I can't, I feel like it's really hard for me to ever disconnect from my work phone, I always have to have it with me. I'm in the middle of a lunch with the girlfriend. And I'm always checking things because, oh, this is really important. Or this doesn't happen that often or it's Friday, and I gotta just check these things off. So yeah, of course. So back to Sarah's question. How does that make you feel? And is that the person you ultimately want to be?

Sara  18:08

Yeah, I had a really, really difficult conversation with my own son about my overworking because even becoming a coach, you still have that. That layer of like, I have to work hard to prove myself, I have to work extra hard because people are watching Money is a really tangible way to measure success. And I found myself like chasing a lot of it. And in talking with him about his sadness about me not being there for some of the things that he wanted me to be there. I mean, that that was a real gut check moment for me, because what I realized is that while I was chasing all of these external validators, other people that bank account, what my colleagues said, what my client said, inside, I knew, I knew that I had abandoned that person that I wanted to be most. And it was his coming to me and saying, Mom, I miss you, Mom, I wish you would make more time for me that I was like, Okay, I've totally abandoned my inner knowing. For all of this external validation. 

Vanessa  19:22

You just brought literally you just brought tears to my eyes because I fully 100% believe that we always know the inner you always knows. And we muddy that sometimes we have this inner knowing we have an intuition. Everybody does and you know, a lot of people like to say that women have it more than men. I don't know if that's true or not. But um, but the point is we have it, you know, and you muddy that some times when you're trying to make excuses for things that you're doing that do not align with who you are when you're living out of integrity, and you're telling like something He's like, don't do that. Don't make that decision. Don't take that job stay with what you're doing. And you're like, No, but and you make all these excuses. And then you put an excuse on top of that when you're not happy. Oh, but at least I did it for whatever reason, you know. And so I 100% agree with you that ultimately we know inside and so if you're listening right now, and you're wondering, how do I know like how do I know when it's my inner knowing what would you say to them? So

Sara  20:25

this is one of my favorite questions because what it means is that you have the opportunity to get quiet and just feel around inside your body. What I when when somebody says you know, I'm not sure that I have an inner voice all that means is that you just have disconnected from it. People pleasing is self abandonment. It's abandoning yourself, for for other people for the team for the boss for the husband for the kids. For the dog. I mean, any time you you abandon you what you know and want for someone else. That is self abandonment. Now, I will say something 

Vanessa  21:09

Okay Hold on. Can we just like highlight that was huge. I just mouthed. I was like, Whoa, Damn, that was good. People pleasing is self abandonment. Exclamation point. All caps. Okay. Yeah. Like Oprah tweetable moment. We do we I go on.

Sara  21:28

Sometimes we like our reasons for people pleasing. Like, I might want to go for a nice long walk in the neighborhood. And I have two sons who still have at home. And they like it when I make dinner. Could I tell them? Make your own dinner? I'm out. Sure. But sometimes I like my reasons for making a meal for 

them being in the kitchen with them. So it I'm not saying that we never want to do things for other people. That's not it at all. But we want to check with ourselves first. Get quiet, like spend some time asking what do I want? What do I like? I've coached women who when I ask them, like what's your favorite color? You're like, I don't know. What's, what's your favorite thing to do? If you had three hours? Nobody needed anything from you. What would you do? I don't even know what I like to do. Like spending some time getting to know you. One of the things that we reward as a society is busyness, busy women busy women who have always have something to do that. There's this status that comes with oh my gosh, I'm so busy. But to put aside the busyness and to really check in, like, what am I like? What do I want? What are my desires? What are my dreams? And to learn to listen to that voice? It is there. And then that voice helps you decide? Do I want to go for a walk by myself tonight? Or do I want to make dinner with my boys? I don't know, I think I'll make dinner with the boys do I like my reasons. Yeah, or I really need a walk, we just need to spend some time alone together. Let's go on a walk boys. It's guess our DNA, you know, whatever they can handle on their own. So once you find that voice, that voice becomes your TrueNorth. And that becomes where you check in first, before you make any decision.

Vanessa  23:30

I love that because checking in doesn't mean you're going to make a decision that sabotages your career or sabotage your relationships with other people. It just means that you find out what you would do first, and love your reasons for whatever decision you're going to make. I just I think that that's so fascinating. I remember I was at this. This all women's training, it was so beautiful. I can't remember what it was called. It was like a whole sacred sister, whatever, with all these professional women. And women asked how do you know when it's your inner voice? Like how do you know? And the answer was exactly what you said, which is like practice, you know. And I know that like as soon as women start really doing an entire, like, not just professional development, but you know, the parallel that goes with that which is real true personal development. When you start doing those things hand in hand, what always comes up is that you start realizing how much you can love yourself and have compassion for yourself and continue to excel fueled by compassion and love. And then when that happens, you realize, whoa, loving myself is awesome. It means I get to like know my preferences. I remember when that first came up for me and I asked my coach at the time, wait a second, like how do I even know like, and she said, try it out. See if you like it. And if you don't it's to try the next to see if you like it and I got so emotional thinking like, oh my gosh, it's like, I'm gonna date I'm gonna go I'm gonna start dating myself.

Sara  24:58

Ah, I matter I matter my needs and my wants and my desires they matter. We have so much programming around putting others first, and how noble and virtuous it is to be constantly giving and serving. And that's what a loving mother does. That's what a loving wife does, you know, she puts everybody else first and the self sacrificial woman is pedestal eyes. Like, that's what we should all become. And we lose ourselves in the process.

Vanessa  25:27

Totally. So I just Okay, let's talk about some tangible ways that Latinas who are leading or want to lead, how they can balance that, you know, showing up in a way that's effective, still in integrity with who they are, and checking themselves when people pleasing is coming up, that doesn't necessarily serve not just them, because this isn't about being selfish, but it's about serving your higher self. It's like who you want to be and show up in the world, right? 

Sara  25:59

Yes, the first tool I teach all of my clients is to give yourself time. So somebody has a request, somebody wants you to do something, somebody wants some of your time or your expertise, or your input, do not say Yes, right away, come up with some kind of memorized phrase, like, I would love to look at my schedule, and get back to you on that. Or I need an hour to take a look at some things I will let you know, some kind of phrase where they don't, they're able to give themselves a break and release themselves from the pressure of having to answer in the moment. So maybe it's something like you know, the two that I offered, or maybe you'll come up with something that you like, because when you give yourself a break, and you remove yourself from the situation, the pressures off for just a second. And that's when you can do the self check in like, Alright, here's what this person wants. This is what it's going to require this are these are the parameters or these are the deadlines or the time it's going to take, what do I want? When I check in with me? What do I find there? Is this a good match? Is this something that I like my reasons for being involved in? These are my reasons why I would say yes, these are my reasons why I would say no. What resonates with me, what do I really like?

Vanessa  27:26

That's so interesting. So a lot of people listening know that I also have a background in neuroplasticity. And I've done a lot of stress management, stress training and resiliency work. And what this really speaks to is putting on hold your amygdala because when someone's quickly asking you to do something, part of you feels like you might be in danger If you say no, which is one of the reasons why we instinctively say yes. And so whenever you say whatever line to give yourself time, which i By the way, do all of the time now, I always say let me just check my calendar. Really quick lesson is really interesting. Let me get back to you. Because it's not a no, but what that does is it turns off your fear response your amygdala and lets you process with your prefrontal cortex with your higher order brain and really think through. Does this make sense for me? Okay, that is just a guess. Yes.

Sara  28:15

And people pleasing is a trauma response. That's one thing that I always love to teach people about. Because sometimes we learn as little girls like, we need to keep the big people happy. Sometimes we have people who have really big unmanaged emotions in our lives, or caregivers, or a parents, angry fathers or mothers, and we learn like if I just do what they want me to do, then I feel safe. And we carry that with us into adulthood. And it's this unexamined trauma response. And so when a boss or someone in power or someone who's bigger or louder, wants something from us, it triggers that scared little girl was like, okay, okay, okay, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'll do it. I'll do it. So that we're all fine. And everybody safe.

Vanessa  29:02

That's so good. So for everyone listening, I don't know how much you know about trauma responses and in trauma informed solutions, but I'll just tell you one quick thing, which is, for every trauma response, the solution will a trauma informed solution always is coupled with compassion. So if you're catching yourself responding in this way, which I 100% agree with you, it's definitely a trauma response. The very first thing is don't get mad at yourself for doing it again. But acknowledge why, like, of course, you're gonna do it again. And you were raised by somebody that was always yelling or screaming. And once you start seeing that, guess what, it'll invoke new self compassion and love, which will really help you move past it. I just was on. I'm doing this fellowship right now. And I was on the fellowship call with a really interesting psychologist that does behavioral psychology. And he gave us a case study about this person that was having a horrible response. Using, you know, benzodiazepines to self medicate alcohol, other things. And so he said, Well, what would you do? And so my answer was, well, first you have compassion, because clearly, there's other underlying things. And he highlighted and said, Yep, and compassion. And by that you mean you respond with a trauma informed response?

Sara  30:23

Well, a lot of us are familiar with, like fight or flight. And I think everybody's kind of, you know, familiar with when you freeze, that's another trauma response. But fawning is how we describe people pleasing whenever they just want everybody to calm down. They're like the peacemaker. They're trying to smooth everything over. Because they're afraid of what's going to happen if they don't. And so thank you for explaining that a little bit more, I see it even in, in little girls, like, how many times do you see little girls and little boys who try to be friends with someone who's bullying them? They try to friend or or people please, to feel safe. And so I always want to include something about that. Because when when we find ourselves in a situation where our nervous system where we're nervous, or we're sweating, or our hearts beating fast, that always means that compassion and love need to be the first step to understanding why it is that I'm having this like bodily response to somebody asking me if I will do this thing for them. There's oftentimes there's more to the story there that I think it's important to, to always highlight, and I love helping helping people understand that. So after you give yourself time, and then you check in with yourself. The third thing that I like to point out as like, step number three is it's uncomfortable. Either way, it's uncomfortable to people, please. Because then you end up doing things you don't want to do. It is also uncomfortable to not people, please. Because then people might share with you their opinion of what they think you're doing. Or you know that if they've asked you to do this job, and it doesn't get done, that's going to mean things for other people. But naming the discomfort like if I say yes to this request, I'm going to be working overtime, I'm going to miss my son's baseball game, and I'm going to get home. And I'm not going to have any, you know, strength or energy left to help my daughter with her homework. That is this kind of discomfort if I choose to do the thing and say yes, if I don't, I'm going to have to allow myself to feel uncomfortable knowing that my boss might not think that I'm being a team player that other people might think I'm not doing my job. Which of those types of discomfort do I want to choose?

Vanessa  33:00

Wow, that's so good. Okay, so you give yourself time by giving a response that doesn't say yes, automatically. Again, you turn off your amygdala, when you do that you're able to respond with your prefrontal cortex. And really, you're turning off your fear response or your fawning response, which I 

think is so brilliant. And number two, you check in with yourself. And then number three, you name out what the request is, either way, because again, what you mentioned is so good, which is, listen, there's not going to be an easy solution all of the time. Sometimes it will be but sometimes it won't. And both will be uncomfortable. So you get to decide which of those to align with your values and align with who you are as a person. Which one of those two means that you're choosing with integrity.

Sara  33:42

Yeah. And number four, make your decision and have your own back. Make your decision and have your own back.

Vanessa  33:53

I feel like that I might drop.

Sara  33:56

I mean, I love it because women who have their own backs. This is what it looks like. For me, it looks like under no circumstances will I mistreat myself, even if I decide to stay late and do the work that my boss asked me to do. And I missed my son's baseball game. Like let's say that I chose to do that because I really felt like it was the best use of my time and I like my reasons for doing it. I will be so kind and loving and good to myself, I will love on my son and I will do everything I can to let him know how much I love him and how important it was for me to do this work. I will under no circumstances beat myself up or judge myself criticize blame all the terrible things we do to myself to to ourselves as women. And number two, I will not allow anybody else to do it either. So if someone else has some things they want to say to me about it. I will remind them that their thoughts belong in their brain, and I don't need to hear them and thank you for wanting to give me some input about it but it's not something that I want to hear. So I will not Wow. And I will not allow myself to be spoken to, in a way that is judgmental, cruel, unkind, critical. No.

Vanessa  35:09

So good. Okay, so that is just so I have to say that's just really badass. Because I think ultimately on everybody's journey, the ultimate point you want to get to is a place where you're always speaking to yourself with so much like, love, respect, kindness, like, like you're your best friend. And you know, it's really easy. That second part where like, you don't let anybody else speak to you like that, you know, when you start getting really good at this, it's really easy to tell other people not to do it. But her own internal thoughts can sometimes be sneaky and says subconscious that they try to sneak in there. And so, you know, for all of you listening, I don't know if I've said this before, but um, it's always good to name that inner voice. Mine is Norma, by the way, and my big joke sometimes now is not today, Norma, Bobby, but not today, Norma. And it now it's I bring light to the whole situation. Right? And I'm never I try to love Norma too, because I noticed that when I'm trying to be when I'm like a normal stop being a little be when I do that. It doesn't mean that but I'm like hey Norma I love you. It's cool. Not today. I got it, you know? Yeah, let's me. It's one of those things, right? It's like what you resist persists. And so don't resist that the voice is gonna come up. Just catch it. And remind yourself that you don't need to hear that.

Sara  36:25

Yeah. And for for so many of us. We've had that voice for so long. Of course, it's gonna come up. Of course, this isn't something you know, we've developed this voice over decades. And so it's gonna take a lot of love and compassion and paying attention. I find the change happens when you start hearing the voice but not believing it. Like you go from I believe it where I like, Yes, this is true of me. I am a terrible mom. I am a terrible, whatever. To what Whoa, no, I hear that. I can still hear it. I can catch it. But I don't believe it anymore.

Vanessa  37:01

Ah, that's magic. That's where the magic happens. Oh, so good, Sarah. Okay, we are coming up to time. But this was amazing. This was so helpful. Okay, so hopefully you were able to listen to the entire thing. But if not, or even if you did, go back and listen again. There's so many good things about raising children about the trauma response of people pleasing and about how to essentially regulate your own response so that you don't have to respond that way anymore. Sarah, this was fantastic. You are incredible. Thank you so much for making time to be here with our audience today.

Sara  37:36

I have loved it. Thank you so much, Vanessa. 

Vanessa  37:38

Okay Ladies I hope you enjoyed this. Hasta la proxima adios. Hey listeners, if you enjoyed the episode, then you've got to check out the Latina leadership accelerator. It's my six month all inclusive coaching program that gives you every tool you need to live and lead with confidence. Learn more at VanessaCalderonmd.com See you there.